Having worked most of my life in the music business, I had a decent idea of the restrictions and costs (royalties, performing rights, mechanical copyright), at least in the UK/EU. Plus an idea of the complications of ownership and who could veto useage either for genuine reasons or on a whim or (I’m looking at you, the Gershwin estate!) because they seem to just like saying “no” for the hell of it.
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You can, with a digital copy of the original movie, extract the audio, mix in the RiffTrax audio, then re-encode (after blipping out Disembaudio’s cues), but it takes ages. So I don’t buy a lot of their Just the Jokes releases. But, in some cases (okay, it was Gymkata), I just can’t say no.
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I am always amused by Frank’s anecdote in the ACEG about how they originally could not get the rights to “Radar Secret Service.” Like, the copyright holder(s) thought they were sitting on some kind of gold mine, and wanted to play hardball until BB ponied up. 
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Sometimes, the owner of the rights can still be proud of a flop. If he/she doesn’t like the idea of people making fun of their hard work, you have to respect that.
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Fascinating stuff. Thank you again for the update!
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I’m not a lawyer, so I’m only guessing here, but I suspect it could have something to do with someone making a legitimate claim. For example, a couple years ago U.S courts ruled that Sherlock Holmes was in the public domain. For obvious reasons ($$$, or, rather, £££), Doyle’s estate (his descendants) vehemently disagreed. However, the ruling stands. So I could see that someone wanting to do something with a Holmes story in the same way MST does with movies could hit a barrier with a lawsuit.
But I’d love to hear a lawyer’s take on this.
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Okay, here’s my question based on what was in the discussion of public domain stuff. If something is officially public domain but someone else claims it isn’t, how can they prevent you from using it if it’s public domain? If they can control what is done with the movie, it’s not public domain, is it?
I apologize if there’s an obvious answer to this. To me, public domain means free to use. If it’s not free to use, then it’s not public domain. …and if that’s not the case, then, I throw up my hands and and am soooooo grateful I never went into law. The illogic of it would drive me absolutely insane. I’ll take students complaining about their grades over this.
My guess would be the idea of potentially meeting them in court is enough of a deterrent. Even if you prove you can use the video, the cost to get it likely isn’t worth the payoff.
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I’d second this. MST3K has a large cultural cachet, but it is inherently a small operation, certainly smaller than many similarly known properties. It is a property that has, in recent years, been funded largely because the fans believe in it just enough to make sure the folks responsible can make the show and eat while doing it.
With a relatively small budget, they won’t want to shell out the money without good reason. With a focus on giving the fans the product they pledged toward, they aren’t going to want to spend more brainpower and stress on a lawsuit. It’s possible, in a world where seasons 14 and 15 pay for themselves comfortably, Alternaversal might, by nature, be more willing to do some harder wheeling and dealing, but there’s clearly no shortage of cheese, even if not all cheese fits the charcuterie board.
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I posted this elsewhere, but if MST3K could have riffed anything they liked, they would almost certainly never have had to dig so deep that they unearthed movies like The Final Sacrifice or Manos.
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Really interesting stuff. How many people are involved in chasing down rights-owners and seeking permissions? It surely can’t be just Matt doing it can it?
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I kinda envy you all getting to do this. I would love to negotiate these types of deals. It would be fascinating trying to find common ground. I imagine some people see it as a slap in the face, and I wonder how many of them have eventually warmed to the idea. I also wonder if anyone has ever approached the crew with a film they own.
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This was fascinating, thank you for sharing this.
When the rights are negotiated with the holder, do they know it’s Alternaversal/Shout Factory at the other end of the table? I would think that you’d play that card close to the vest so they don’t jack up the price for the MST3K name that they wouldn’t do for “Totally Not MST3K Shell Company of the Cayman Islands Ltd.”
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Hobgoblins! The director liked it so much he included the Hobgoblins song from the episode in the trailer for Hobgoblins 2!
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So an example of this might be the following… If I recall, technically, “It’s a Wonderful Life” is in the public domain.
The copyright for the film had not been renewed correctly in the 70’s. As such, the film’s actual images entered the public domain.
This is why, throughout December, it used to be on TV ALL the time across multiple networks and became a holiday tradition as well as a Jean Paul Sartre vision of hell.
However, because the film’s story remains secured (it’s based on the copyright protected story “The Greatest Gift”), a copyright claim was able to be made since the movie is derivative of that element.
That’s how the movie can still be held by copyright and has to be licensed to be aired today.
It’s Schrodinger’s Copyright.
Does that make sense?
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I’ve heard that the crew of Future War mused about their movie ending up on MST3K. Not sure if they actually reached out, but that’s pretty close.
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Purchasing Gymkata is the smart move, especially if you live in an area with a lot of free-standing pommel horses.
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One famous story about this kind of thing is that the reason It’s a Wonderful Life is aired so often at Christmastime is that the studio just plain forgot to renew its copyright back in the '70s, so anyone can show it for free. Obviously, this kind of thing doesn’t happen often, especially with movies that are such cherished classics.
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A similar thing kept the Marx Bros’ Animal Crackers from being seen for upwards of 40 years. The film was owned by Universal, but the screenplay was owned by the George S. Kaufman estate, which wanted their cut. Non-original soundtracks are a common example of part of a movie being copyright protected even if the film isn’t.
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I will stick to student complaints about their grades. 
I am so glad I don’t have to deal with it. I’ll stick to Schrodinger’s cat and Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle. Those are easier to manage. 
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