It took a couple of episodes to get used to everyone’s sense of humor, and all the changes, but we’re good. There was at least one riff and one host segment in each episode that made me bust out laughing. I do think netflix made them change too much for season 12, s11 felt more proper. But don’t get me wrong, I liked ‘em all.
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I lapped it all up. My one criticism is that the riffs seemed to come too fast and furious. The latter-day Joel episodes and most of Mike’s era it’s just easy and natural. The early Netflix ones seem like they’re trying to throw everything up, like they’re so eager to please. I remember thinking they should (really just) relax things a bit. The Gauntlet was better than The Return in that regard.
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A great question!
I enjoy them, is the bottom line I suppose but here’s what I’ve noticed:
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The show seems to have picked up more of a spectacle, expanded-universe-type feeling. There are lots of new characters all at once. They’re done well but I’ve always enjoyed the small family vibe of the early years.
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Riffing is MUCH more rapid fire. Now, they’re some really good riffs so , no big challenge there but I do notice that it can make it harder to understand the daffy spirit of the movie. I’m not explaining it well. I’ve always thought that in the Joel years it was like watching a ridiculous movie with them and the jokes became entwined with the plot and I guess because of how fast they’re riffing now it’s harder to watch the movie WITH them…more like around them.
All that said, I do enjoy it and keep watching them. Especially Starcrash.
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Season 11 endears itself with every pass. The handing of the torch to the next generation you feel the instant you’re in the theater. Tales From The Crypt, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters, the new guard floods the viewer nearly drowning you in so many riffing directions your head is spinning. The targets are fresh and the fun is a mile-a-minute. You’re right. Episode to episode, the successful riff rate stays steady and I thank Joel and his writers on not just resurrecting MST but possibly improving it as well.
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Aside from Jonah (and Jonah is definitely my guy), the more current riffs were what made it for me. They do the jokes just as well as back in the day, but they hit harder when you’re seeing them as they come out and you’re living in the world that they’re referencing. As someone that came to the show while it was completely cancelled, I enjoyed the older riffs and references but it’s a whole new experience getting it with up to date material. Frankly, it’s MST the way it’s meant to be experienced.
“They’re mailing these jokes in fresh overnight! The only way you could get fresher jokes is if you were lounging around on the beach and walked over to the pier when the joke fishing boats come in with nets full of jokes still flopping around.”
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The newness and younger cultural relevance redefine the MST experience. Averaging one Star Wars reference per new episode in Season 11, my mouth dropped on hearing writers touching tent poles of my lifetime versus my father’s. Tech, social media, Marvel Movies, Christopher Nolan’s Interstellar, the dragging in of today’s films, music, and gaming were game changers forever adapting the prior formula with fresh meat to chew. Not just that but evolving the visual humor of the Bots to interact and engage the experiment reaped renewed fascination and mystique.
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I’ll echo what most others have said: the riffing is key, and the Netflix seasons deliver. A little too frenetically early on, but they eventually found a better rhythm with experience.
I was also very pleased just to see some new material get riffed. The classic episodes are the gold standard, but there are so many awful movies out there just dying for the MST treatment.
I did worry a little that they had picked a few inappropriate titles. You can’t go wrong with cheesefests like Cry Wilderness, Starcrash, and Mac and Me, but when I started The Land That Time Forgot, my first reaction was “This movie is waaaaay too decent for MST. Those submarine sets are great!” But then I laid my eyes on the dinosaur puppets, and it all came together. Plus it had actor Doug McClure, whom you may remember from such films as Satan’s Triangle and Humanoids from the Deep.
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I disagree about Crow, because he still sounds Crow-ish. I had more of an issue distinguishing between Tom and Jonah at times.
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I didn’t mind the faster riffs so much, but where the new show could stand some improvement is in how often it breaks the illusion that Jonah and the Bots are actually watching these movies for the first time and just happen to be smart enough to come up with all these jokes off the cuff. Probably the best example is in Reptilicus, where during one attack scene there’s a montage of four quick shots, and every single one gets its own riff that starts the INSTANT the edit occurs, making clear they knew exactly what was about to happen.
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I’m 100% with you on this. When I first saw details of how the new episodes were made, my jaw dropped and I thought, “What have you done?” It was originally three people – two holding puppets – watching the movie on their monitors and reading their scripts, and it worked marvelously. No post-production, no flying Servo, just the ultimate low-tech.
Awhile back someone here noted that the original crew was stretched pretty thin – everyone wearing multiple hats, each doing the jobs of several people on set – which was a burden and not the “right way” to do it. But I don’t entirely buy that. It was a scrappy group who spun gold from what little they had to work with. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, I say.
That said, the new seasons are growing on me, and the riffing really is strong in some of them, and ultimately that’s the core of MST.
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I starting writing this whole thing, but after three paragraphs and barely getting started, I’m deleting them and I’m going to try to keep it short. Very short answer: mostly loved Seasons 11 & 12.
Pros: Cast; riffs/jokes/humor in general; movie choices; movie-related host segments; songs outside the theater; invention exchanges; overall viewing experience (it FEELS like MST3K).
Cons: Riffing to viewers instead of each other; season-long “plots” (marriage/Idiot Control Now); songs with instruments inside the theater; having Max obsess over Kinga after she clearly said no (fixed in Season 12, thankfully); “friend zone” jokes in Starcrash; fat/gay jokes about Ollie in Killer Fish.
On my first few watch-throughs of the new seasons, I loved this, but the more I watch the less I like it. The flying Servo stuff’s not too bad - they certainly did physical jokes during the original run. But, if you want GPC making jokes in the theater, just put her in there. It can be more than 3 riffers - it was on the Joel/Jonah tour, to say nothing of Rifftrax’ many configurations. To explain very clumsily, her drive-by single riffs break up the rhythm.
This says it perfectly.
There was a production photo in a recent Season 13 update email that showed Hampton Yount and Baron Vaughn puppeteering Crow and Servo on either side of Jonah filming a theater segment. So that might have changed back to Season 1-10 style?
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MST3K was Joel’s creation, and even he took a while to get it right. For the Jonah era, they weren’t just learning their craft, but had the massive weight of expectation hanging over them from generations of fans.
Some of those fans having already shown themselves resistant to change, as we know from the long and staggeringly tedious “Joel v Mike” flame war, when Joel stepped down from the show.
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this will come off as smug self-important bs but i find the need to offer specific criticisms without a request to be largely wasted effort (but then again is that not the main point of forums?).
are most things not better appreciated for what they are rather than picked apart for what they are not?
revisiting foods we once didnt enjoy or albums that didnt reach us at their release can sometimes have a way of getting through impressions & opinions we once held to a new appreciation…at least i often find that to occasionally be the case.
now that my nose is out of the way, a subtle remixing based largely on volume control could alleviate some of the issues some have with the pace of season 11, which i find amazingly strong.
it may take time to fully appreciate the next stage, but i am really looking forward to what is next!
now, i will bugger off and allow you to get back to the fun of discussing The Jonah Years(tbc). 
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Rather than criticism, I see this more as critique. Yes, that could be (equally smug) semantics. However, clearly, if we really hated the reboot, we wouldn’t be here, most if not all of us as backers for the new season.
I think it’s useful to look at what worked and what didn’t, especially when actual representatives from the new crew are active here. And in this case, I really liked Jonah. I had no issue with a new host and I think Jonah filled those shoes wonderfully. I really enjoyed the riffing (I just wish it was a little slower.) and I liked most of the songs. However, I didn’t like everything and I think it’s okay to talk about it.
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Agreed. That said, I absolutely love what Rebecca Hanson brought to GPC (as well as Synthia!).
I think her and Baron found ways to make these characters their own and built upon the characterizations that came before.
Big fan of the season 11 and 12. Truly believe that had Netflix picked them up for another a season (and not the truncated episode length of season 12), they would have found their groove even more!
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I’ve mentioned before that I place my favorites from the last two seasons with my favorites from Season 2 at Comedy Central. Yes, @InterestingWerewolf things were really starting to gel just as Netflix pulled the plug.
I was giggling quite a lot during the rebroadcast of Avalanche on Thursday. So perhaps some of these will rise even higher for me as time goes on.
What I miss more than anything is the Minnesota/Midwest references. (Though I feel like we did get a “PACKERS!” or two near the end.) Regionalisms are always welcome, to me. Even if it’s Philly now instead. <3
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I completely agree with this (though as a Philadelphian, I certainly don’t mind the Carvel references, haha).
I actually often find myself watching Avalanche, Cry Wilderness, The Loves of Hercules quite often.
The Christmas That Almost Wasn’t has really grown on me as well and definitely worth a revisit at the holidays.
As others have mentioned feeling the riffs for season 11 being too fast or rapid fire, that didn’t bother me because I felt that as the season progressed they did slow down.
What I do wish had more time to breathe were the host segments. That’s something that has continued through season 11 and 12.
I wish they had a few more moments and also didn’t have to go right back into the theatre. I would have loved if they could have kept a commercial sign like break (similar to the station identifications in season 11- “Moon 13, the Moon.”) After the host segments.
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lol The Carvel references worry me. I grew up in N.J. and it… was just ice cream. We threw them over without a second thought as soon as a more Mom-and-Pop alternative opened up a 1/4 mile closer to us. Though I’d love it if somehow there was a sketch about the uh… long-buried scandal regarding their failed pony giveaway.
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We’ve commiserated in the past regarding the format, commercial breaks, and the Season 12 shortening of the episodes in the Kickstarter Comments. If you recall, we’re on the same page. The added breath and space enhanced the immersion into the world and to those who grew up with it 90 minutes is how we remember it. I trust Joel transitions back to that given it was a Netflix condition. I’ve even heard whispers to that effect. Host Segments? They were shorter than past seasons. I chalk that to retooling MST for younger viewers and the belief that staying outside the theater too long would be a turnoff. I hope this too is remedied with Season 13. That said, the bang for buck of Season 11 and 12 Host Segments is pretty strong hurt mainly by 11’s lesser Celebrity Cameos and 12’s Gauntlet obsession. Yes 12 is named The Gauntlet. While the crowding of the concept grew tiresome.
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I love the new seasons, and it was such a joy to see the show come back. I am anxiously awaiting Season 13, and everything that I see in the updates and set photos makes me feel confident that they are going to knock it out of the park. Seeing that Baron and Hampton are actually doing the puppeteering and that they are recording their riffs together with Jonah makes me happy. As others have said, I feel like it will “gel” better that way.
If I had to list one gripe, it is this: I feel like Netflix meddled too much with the format for season 12, and it suffered as a result. The gauntlet style didn’t really do it for me, and Atlantic Rim felt like it was a forced choice, so that there was something “current” in the line up. It is hands down my least favorite movie that they have riffed. It is intentionally awful, which doesn’t really work with the format, as Joel himself has explained many times.
I enjoy every iteration of the show, including the live version, and all of the other projects that MST alumni have gone on to do. Those of us that love this kind of entertainment are spoiled for content these days.
Can’t wait for Season 13!
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