Philosophy according to MYSTies

I’ve never understood the point of arguing against free will.

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Simple — such people were preordained to.

Or chose to.

One or the other…

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ah but if there were a point it wouldn’t be philosophy, would it? :wink:

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Maybe you’ll never understand the point because you lack the free will to learn it?

Seriously though: I think there is free will, but I also think that there are so many external and genetic forces which preselect our decisions for us and narrow them down significantly.

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Well, free will can’t exist in a universe with an omniscient, omnipotent and inerrant God.

Since God already knows every decision you’re going to make, you can’t make any other decision because then God would be wrong.

We, however, would never be able to distinguish that situation from true free will.

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Sadly, God is like “Do what you gotta do, I’m kinda busy over here”

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if we wish to be serious: I think “free will” in any meaningful sense is incompatible with the belief that the universe is governed by physical laws (a belief I have). People will point to quantum uncertainty but that’s just randomness, that’s not a decision point in any conscious sense. However, I believe it is essential for the functioning of civilization that we all act as if we believe in free will. To do otherwise is to revert to a state a nature, and I will leave it to others to debate whether that’s good or bad.

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I don’t think we have a choice but to act as if we believe in free will whether we do or not. We’re not just going to lie down and stop moving even if we think we have no free will because the universe will make us get up and live.

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I think he’s more like…

200w

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Let us philosophize as to why @LadyShelley put a Y in MSTies… is the Y for the Y-axis on a graph, stretching on to infinity like the possibilities of a philosophical discussion on a web forum? What would Hegel say?

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I think it’s because philosophy puts the “why” in everything!

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Because …

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I love the way ancient Greeks couched everything… no, it’s not “wisdom”, it’s “love of wisdom”

Sophrosyne is sublimely beguiling

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I think we really need to get something extremely important over with before we move on with this thread…

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Saying that free will is incompatible with a universe governed by laws is another way of saying we don’t fully understand the laws that govern the universe.

A robust description of reality will either have to explain how we have free will; or how we don’t, but why it really, really, really feels like we do. #hegel

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UGH don’t talk to me about Hegel
:crazy_face:

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Say what you will about him, hömeboy had a point about the dialectic.

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I admit I never studied philosophy - my background is in the sciences where all hypotheses need to be tested, not argued about. Sure, throw out whatever hypothesis you want, just be prepared to show some evidence.

Don’t see the point of arguing about reality.

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Religion wise, free will is a cop out… God gave us free will. Whenever I asked why he doesn’t get off his duff and help us… “free will” is the answer I get.

Within that context, universal, all-encompassing free will was a dumb idea - free will to choose who we love and how we dress and what music we want to listen to, okay, but we don’t need the freedom to rape and murder and molest… seriously God, you can step in and smite those who would do such things.

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There’s a new book out by some Stanford guy arguing against free will and taking it to its logical conclusion – that murderers are not morally responsible for killing, etc. This is what I mean when I say that civilization requires that we act like we believe in free will. Because while Stanford Man has some suggestions (along the lines of harm reduction and restorative justice) what I really want is for people to not murder me, and I feel like saying “whelp you couldn’t help it!” to every killer is not going to advance my main goal in this area.

Call me a utilitarian if you must!

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