In anticipation of the upcoming season two premiere of Rings of Power, here is your all-purpose Tolkien thread.
Talk about the books!
Talk about the films!
Talk about the RoP series! (though let’s try to keep the vitriol to a minimum. What you don’t like others do. Please keep that in mind.)
So how many times have you read LotR? (I’ve lost count)
How many different versions of the books do you own? (at least three for me)
Let’s talk!
As a teacher, I was able to have a reading class go over The Hobbit.
The kids loved it, and it inspired a group to come up with their own role playing game in class.
A few had a question that I did notice when reading it, too: Did you notice that The Hobbit seems to be cobbled together from a range of source material separated by time? IIRC, it sort of resembled shuffling, with the style changing from chapter to chapter, back-and-forth; with some seeming almost “out-of-place”. Like it was two books combined to make one.
For me, the most amazing thing about Lord of the Rings was how it pulled me in like no other book while I read it. I would typically read books before and after work, putting them away and not thinking about them while I did my job. You know, like a normal person.
But while LotR was the current thing, I wasn’t just thinking about it at work; my actual feeling was “argh, I’m missing it!” As if it were a live event or broadcast. Such a strange experience to have for a medium that moves along at the pace you set for it. I’ve never had that since.
On the opposite side of amazing, I was in a bookstore once and saw the many volumes of The History of Middle Earth, written by his son. Curious, I opened one to a random page and it literally was like “and in the fifth draft, a comma was added here, and in the sixth draft it was changed to a semicolon.” I NOPED right the heck out of that.
It did start out as stories that he told his kids. There are bound to be some style changes.
One of the things that always stuck out for me was the dialogue. In scenes with the hobbits talking with each other, the dialogue sounds very natural. But in scenes where other races (particularly elves) dominate, it gets very poetic and stylized and arty farty. Gandalf is kind of bilingual, switching between the two styles as needed.
I am not the massive Tolkien fan that many are. I read the books in high school. I enjoyed the movies, but not at the level many did and I have yet to re-watch them.
But what I have revisited multiple times is the absolutely amazing BBC radio adaptation done in the 1980s by Brian Sibley.
And Peter Jackson must have loved it too, because Ian Holm, Bilbo in the films, was Frodo in the radio series.
It’s got a decent cast and, unlike the films, preserves a lot of the poetry. I also far prefer Peter Woodthorpe’s Gollum voice over Sandy Serkis’ voice. Serkis, I thought, always leaned too far in on “weird creature,” whereas Woodthorpe was mostly “pitiful wretch.” For me, it’s a much better interpretation of the character, more in line with what Tolkien envisioned.
It’s on the Internet Archive: 1981 BBC Lord Of The Rings : J.R.R. Tolkien : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
More info here. Check out the cast list if you’re familiar with British cinema.
The Hobbit has been one of my favorite books since childhood. And one of the first “chapter books” I read to my son. I bought The Folio Society’s edition last year, and now I very much want to buy their edition of The Lord of the Rings as well.
I would also love it if someone made an English edition of The Hobbit using Tove Jansson’s illustrations from the Swedish and Finnish editions.
I learned that if I’m ever tempted to write anything resembling the Council of Elrond, I should instead beat my readers with a 2x4, because it’s more merciful.
Filming it instead is clearly not a solution, PETER!
What is the one in the middle supposed to be?
I think that’s Gollum !
He’s huge! Giant Servo huge!
Greed turns normal beings into unrecognizable monsters !
Giant Servo on the Ralph Bakshi movie: “Movie bad.”
I haven’t read all of the History of Middle Earth books but I do find the History of the Lord of Rings subset fascinating. It can be pretty dry, but I especially enjoyed the first book (The Return of the Shadow) when he traces the evolution of the concept and how JRRT approached it as an author.
I think I’ve only read the trilogy 3-4 times but I have three copies of it. The one is a paperback version that’s my reading copy, the Easton press versions that look nice on the shelf, and a one-volume version printed on thin bible-paper that’s only about an inch thick (which I’m actually a bit afraid to read so as not to tear the tissue-paper pages).
Amen to that. The BBC dramatized production was definitive. Sadly they didn’t include everything (Old Forest, Barrow Downs & Bombadil got skipped) but I can understand that choice. But the sound, the music, the cast and the script were absolutely perfect. Michael Hordern as Gandalf still beat out Ian McKellan in my book. His voice was perfect. And yes - Woodthorpe’s Gollum was much better than Serkis. You, sir, have chosen wisely.
I’m a student of literature and a practiced writer myself and it is without reservation that I state that J.R.R. Tolkien’s masterpiece is not only one of the greatest pieces of literature of modern times, but it is also one of the greatest works of literature that human beings have produced in their existence. Tolkien was a combination of skill (Oxford philologist, serious student of folklore and mythos), talent as a natural storyteller, and life-experience\morality that was needed to create something that was high quality, innately pure, and transcended personal or cultural differences. He was a talent that comes along only once in a millennium and it is not an accident that his work is the wellspring from which thousand of pale imitators sprang.
I picked the Hobbit off my Dad’s shelf when I was in 6th grade and it blew my mind. I read the thing like 30 times and when I found out the story continued and only got BETTER I was hooked. It only becomes deeper and more profound over time and life, and it belongs on every bookshelf.
The movies are not as good as the books. I’ll say that up front. They stray from Tolkien in many respects (such as Aragorn not wanting to be king? What’s up with that?) and Sam leaving Frodo (NEVER would have happened) because Jackson loves Hollywood tropes. But at the heart they wanted to respect Tolkien’s story and put it on film rather than do “their” movie and every time they deferred the Tolkien’s story and remained faithful to it the result was great. A worthy interpretation, though not perfect.
But Rings of Power. Ugh. This ‘content’ fails at every level. Not only are they the worst ham-handed, fumble-fingered fanfic-level scripters ever, but the so called “showrunners” themselves think Tolkien needed to be “improved”. The arrogance… Tolkien’s work was pure and timeless. RoP is mired in the worst aspects of corporate audience pandering, as well as the odious stench of modern disdain for the source material and disdain for those who are fans of it. Not only will this train wreck fail the test of time, but it also fails the test of even appealing within its own time. It will rightly be forgotten alongside the many other current day fanfics that paw the bones of their superior predecessors.
As much as the stories are compelling, I’ve always loved the art too. Whether it’s Tolkien’s drawings, or Alan Lee, the art inspired by the words is amazing.
It’s worth mentioning that Stephen Colbert has an encyclopedic knowledge of Tolkien.
Or I should say almost encyclopedic.
Yes, it’s Gollum. And I kind of love the alternate take on him. Granted, it doesn’t fit with the backstory we learn in The Lord of the Rings, but I love it anyway.
The lack of connection part makes sense, but it’s not like The Hobbit suggests he’s gigantic either.
