The riffing reacts to the experiment. I contend the riffing is all over the place because the movie is. Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966) pushed the riffers to the limit to invent and create responses and fill gaps the movie left behind. Starcrash (1978) taxes the viewer and riffer similarly. The overload of derivative space opera and the “Hi I’m Star Wars!” of it prompts strange responses. Much like Manos. Meshed with the Italian oddity, John Barry music, and Christopher Plummer pausing like a madman, Starcrash is larger than life and the riffs suggest that.
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I guess so, but that’s one of the things about MST3K that always bothered me. Even in the older episodes, I didn’t care for the running gags. I just think that they’re worse in the new episodes because there’s already a set standard for them to live up to. And when they keep pushing annoying things like “Capsule!” “Steak milk!” “Pretty nice!” “Bull butter!”, it really comes off as artifical. It’s one of my biggest turn offs with the new seasons. Like yeah, it’s a riff I already heard a hundred times. I get it. Now let’s actually hear the jokes.
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I think the Netflix seasons are pretty good (aka pretty nice!!). But while I really enjoy Starcrash, I don’t think the riffing is nearly as strong on that one as several other episodes in that season.
As for the occasional forced gag, I do cringe at some of them but it’s not that serious to me because God knows the fans have been doing it for years. The Day That Time Ended and Yongary are very solid riffing without all that.
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The NBC Sunday Night Mystery Movie.
By this time my lungs were aching for air.
I thought I was Dale.
Hi-keeba!
You do it, I’m bitter.
Running gags are part of the MST3K experience!
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MST3K: making memes before memes!
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I read your book you magnificent bastard!
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I’ll say that when done just right, episodes with running gags can make a great episode even better! One of the many reasons I love I Accuse My Parents is because how well they weave multiple running gags into the overall riffing.
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The thing that always amused me was when the show had to police itself when those running gags were overused.
Like in Teenagers from Outer Space, with the “mild but memorable shock” to dissuade the Bots from referencing the NBC Mystery Movie every time a flashlight appeared.
Or the lightning round credit riffs in the beginning of Crash of Moons, where Crow uses the “oh, is the great _______ (in this/directing this/gracing us with his presence)” joke and Servo nixes his joke as being overused.
And then there’s the cop/donut joke contract in Indestructible Man.
(But I’m generally a sucker for a joke that’s used time-and-time-and-time-and-time again.)
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“Oh I hate to shoot a butt like that!”
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Did somebody say ‘Ken’?
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it’s cool man. We can agree to disagree.
but imdb says she was a writer for Wizards of the Lost Kingdom II as well. Wondering what you thought of that one?
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if anything we need more Bull Butter…
lol.
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Sometimes repetition works for me. Sometimes not.
I think the “Rocky!” “Again?!” thing from Fugitive Alien is a hoot. Why? Well, I’ve always loved me some Jay Ward cartoons. Also, it has the build-up to Joel losing his temper and tearing off Crow’s arm.
On the other hand, the constant yelling of “Load!” at the old guy in The Mole People basically ruins the episode for me. He’s dull, and mostly noteworthy for cementing what a bad story this is, because why would you bring such a frail old coot on such a dangerous mission in the first place? But then again his buddies are all dull, too. So I just get impatient with the riff more than the character it’s supposed to be taking down. It’s like they brought dozens of little dull knives to Bingo Night at the nursing home. Or something.
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A running gag works best when it has some sort of payoff. Again, I’m bringing up Indestructible Man because it has a great running gag. The joke itself is lame, just associating cops with donuts. But what makes it funny is the bots getting more and more pissed off at Joel, to the point where they make him sign the “No Cops & Doughnuts Joke Accord”. Even in Space Mutiny, there’s a little payoff to the running gag. After hearing all the fake super macho buff sounding names for Dave Ryder, it’s funny to hear Servo say a relatively normal name like Bob Johnson. It subverts expectations.
From what I can recall of the Netflix episodes, there’s not a lot flavor added to the running jokes there. And I don’t wanna dog on seasons 11 and 12 too much because there are some great episodes there. Avalanche is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. Yongary is a great one too, but I have to admit they got carried away with the repeated “Capsule” riff. It just doesn’t work for me.
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Actually, to get things back on a more positive track, I want to bring up an episode that nobody else has mentioned in this thread. Ator: The Fighting Eagle. That is a very solid episode from season 12, and I personally prefer to it Cave Dwellers. (I know it’s a classic, but I found it kinda boring.)
There are some really funny riffs in that one, and it showed just how good new MST3K could be. I don’t know if anyone out there really hates this episode, but it’s not one that’s brought up a lot. Then again, season 12 in general isn’t discussed that much. But Ator is a very solid episode and one I always enjoy rewatching.
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Wizards of the Lost Kingdom II (1989) displays a larger in your face directness of the joking which does speak to her and is similar to Starcrash (1978). I stand corrected. Great catch. I somehow missed her name. I hopped onto IMDB and her page is missing the normal list of credits. I rescreened Wiz II’s end titles to confirm. During my last watchthrough of Season 11 and 12, I made a conscious effort to scan every writer mentioned and that slipped by. Figures…
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Funny. I have the opposite sense. Ator: The Fighting Eagle (1982) is “kinda boring” compared to Cave Dwellers (1984). Personal preference I guess. That and Dwellers is my formative MST experience and it casts a very big reflection. On initial glance, Ator disappointed. Reason? Expectations I think and I had seen it unriffed in my teens not long after watching the Cave episode. Reevaluating Seasons 11 and 12 not that long ago, Killer Fish (1978) and Ator grabbed me on second glance and I viewed each again. After three times, I’m now with you Ator is worth seeing and improves the more you do.
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no worries man. Just wondering if the riffing on Wizards of the lost kingdom 2 stood out in a good way for you as well?
I really enjoyed starcrash but for the wizards of the lost kingdom II episode was one of my top favs of the season.
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there is nothing in Ator that is batshit insanely hilarious as the final section of cave dwellers… from the hangglider to the nuclear bomb going off it’s some peak MST3K greatness. Cave Dwellers is one of the best episodes of all time. so yeah I agree that Ator was a bit of a disappointment compared to that and that it was the final episode of the gauntlet. I feel S12 really needed to have a high level of consistency and a strong finish to work with just 6 episodes. That didn’t happen IMO.
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