What was your first MST/Riff forum?

That’s where I started out, too. 102075,3027. Good times. Although I think I was more talking about Lois and Clark and SeaQuest and random things, rather than MST3K specifically. I was on the comics forum, too. Before that, I hung out on my local BBS, but we didn’t really talk shows, despite everyone listing their favorite show as ST:NG in their profiles. (Prompting me to wonder what “Sting” was…)

My first regular MST3K hangout was Club-MST3K, where I haunted the comments sections on and off for over a decade.

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Does anyone want to explain Usenet, Compuserve Forums, or any pre-social media message boards to the younger folks?

I’ve found it hard enough to explain ICQ & AIM, and it’s not as if texting is a foreign concept. But they get TikTok and communicating via video so more power to them.

First MST / riff community, long time part of the Wired.

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Usenet actually still exists, and it’s always been there. You can participate in it and even read archives of conversations that happened over 30 years ago using Google Groups (which somehow continues to exist, thankfully) or by getting access through some entity (try a web search). A lot of people use it to transfer large files (can you guess what kinds of files?), but it can still be used for its original purpose. People were driven away from it by that ubiquitous internet problem, spammers.

Compuserve (a.k.a. CIS, for Compuserve Information Service) was once the foremost online service in the world, and predated public access to the internet. It was founded in 1969 and for a long while dominated the field. Originally you’d log into it using terminal software, and it was still possible to use that when I was a member, but by that point most features were reserved for their CIM software, Compuserve Information Manager. At that point most people still used dial-up connections (not internet ones, Compuserve’s proprietary protocol) to connect.

Mostly Compuserve was used for accessing its hundreds of forums, a usage of the term that originated with them, each dedicated to an individual topic. Forums were generally self-contained and had a message board, private messaging, a chat function, and a download area that users could contribute files to. It was all moderated, and most forums were run as individual businesses by entrepreneurs. Compuserve also provided a number of other services, particularly email and access to a number of games like the long-running MegaWars and Island of Kesmai.

Each forum was its own service within the greater bulk of Compuserve, with its own culture. Each was like its own individual walled garden. Since there was no greater internet that people could generally access at that time, there weren’t links to websites. Content generally had to be hosted in the forum. Forums were big enough that companies announcing new movies or products would, with the assistance of the forum staff, do Q&A chats, which were novel and could be fairly big draws. I remember going to one in the Animation forum with a friend from WorldsAway (see below) for Disney’s Hunchback of Notre Dame. I wish I had kept in contact with that friend, but alas, connections with most of the people I knew back then have been lost.

Compuserve was old enough that most computing platforms had their own forum. I remember once interviewing Jim Butterfield, grand old man of the Commodore 64 scene, in a chat in the Commodore forum. I have dearly wished I still had the transcript of that conversation. Maybe on an old floppy disk somewhere.

Some of these forums were big news back then. Sci-Fi Media was not the primary Sci-Fi forum, that being Sci-Fi Lit. There was also a Sci-Fi Writers forum, which I was briefly a member of. MST3K had a board in the Sci-Fi Media forum. I made friends with several members back then, but, to my sorrow, I don’t remember any of their user names. I don’t even remember what name I used there. I remember reporting there about an email I had sent to the Cartoon Network people in response to the request for comment and fanmail they would air after each What A Cartoon premiere, and their reply. I wish I had a better memory for such ancient times.

In retrospect, Compuserve’s business model was destroyed by the internet. Going by memory, first Prodigy then AOL both offered internet service before Compuserve. When AOL’s ubiquitous CDs and internet access allowed it to overtake Compuserve the writing was on the wall. Compuserve adapted late, first offering internet access with a surcharge (gak), then as part of their main service, then opening up their forums to internet access too, where they sputtered along for a while. The last ones were eventually closed surprisingly late, in 2017. It seems that archive.org archived a lot of them, although I have no idea how to access them.

In addition to offering the first forums available to general computer users, Compuserve was also the originators of the GIF file format, which stands for Graphics Interchange Format. Its 256-color limitation was not seen as such a problem back then, and it also allows for animation. Even now you can find animated GIFs in various corners of the aging web.

AOL had long bought them out by that point. Nowadays Compuserve’s legacy appears to be limited entirely to a portal page at compuserve.com (remember web portals??), still using the logo from the final days of the service’s true operation. It offers Compuserve Mail, which seems to link to AOL’s email system, which is now run by Yahoo, and isn’t that a ramshackle chain of ownership. It also offers an About page with company history, and look, there at the bottom:
CS_wow
To the right of that GIF is the logo to WOW, which I never thought I’d see again! WOW was a second service that Compuserve created to try to provide a more family-friendly face to what was seen by most as a business-oriented offering. It died pitifully fast, I don’t even think it lasted a month. I once had an issue of Compuserve Magazine (it existed!) that came with a CD bundled with WOW access software, as well as the client to WorldsAway, a graphical virtual world that originated on Compuserve and I was a voracious member of. All gone, like tears in the rain. That that logo, which dates to around the year 2000, is still there should give one an indication of how much attention Compuserve has been paid by the AOL people. I expect that page is entirely automated.

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The Forrest Crow forum attached to Satellite News was my first. I loved following the thread on the likelihood of episodes being released on DVD.

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I joined the Comedy Central Forum I wanna say around the time Joel left. Though, honestly, I think I was the only regular there who was an MST3K fan. No flame wars at all, except when they canceled MST3K and I torched the intern (whose name was actually Frank, heh).

1979 was when it became the on-line-for-consumer service, tho’.

Prior to that it was…insurance? Some business-specific thing.

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The thing is that Compuserve predated websites. The first website to go live was CERN (the lab that now has the Large Hadron Collider), and the site was launched in 1991. It didn’t have much. Just a bit of plain text. Even in the mid-90s, there were only a handful of websites. They didn’t have much content. And most people were connecting at 14.4 kbps. Twice that if you were fancy. 100 k was possible if you had a dedicated line. But we’re talking about kilobytes per second. There was noticeable lag in loading more than half a page of plain text. Small images would slowly come in as you were reading. Which is why Netscape (early web browser bought out by Yahoo) introduced a setting to just not load pictures by default.

So you’d dial into CompuServe and you’d have their main internal features. Forums, email, chat rooms. I had some good discussions there. Stan Lee did a live chat room interview in the comic book forum and I got to ask him a question about Marvel movies (which were notably not very good at the time).

If you wanted, you could then open up a browser window to access the rest of the Internet, but you were charged by the minute for it. While using up a phone line, so no one could make phone calls unless you had a second line. And the phone company charged you by the minute if the access number wasn’t local to you. There usually wasn’t much point to that, though, because there was so little content on the Internet. Everything was internal to Compuserve. (Or AOL, which offered a similar competing service.)

Before Compuserve, I used a local BBS. It was an ad hoc network of a few computers across NJ. You’d have your computer call one of the access servers, and then you could go to the chat room. Everything was text-only. This was before graphical interfaces had really taken hold. But you could chat with whoever was online at the time and send each other files (if you had the time and patience for that). They also had a feature called “e-mail” where you could leave a message for someone who wasn’t online, that they could pick up next time they logged in. But there wasn’t much point to it because, really, what did you have to say that couldn’t just wait for the next time you were both in chat together?

We had meetups sometimes. Because even though it was an online chat room, we were all in NJ. I was 13 and I got my parents to drop me off at a Denny’s in town for a few hours, where all the people I’d been chatting with had converged so we could have dinner together and talk IRL for a bit. We were all excited for the opportunity. Since we were such a large party, they gave us a section to ourselves. Not exactly a private room, but a cluster of tables off to the side with no one else sitting nearby. So, every 10 minutes or so, one or two of us would get up from each table and go to sit at a different table so we could all get a chance to talk to everyone else. Most of them were in their 20s and 30s, and were very surprised to discover that the guy they’d been hanging out with was barely a teenager. But we got along great.

Thing is, the waitress didn’t like it. She was confused by our shuffling seating arrangements, and said she suspected that we were trying to create disorder so we could skip out on the check or something. Which didn’t make any sense, really. One of the adults in the group talked to her and explained, but she still didn’t like it. So the manager came and told us to stop switching seats. We thought that was stupid, but we at least slowed the pace of how often we were moving around. That wasn’t enough. The manager came back. We’d put in our food orders and dinner was almost ready, but after that, we were no longer welcome. The waitress slammed down the checks right next to our plates and made it clear that we would not be ordering anything else. No dessert for us.

To this day, Denny’s is still the only restaurant I’ve been kicked out of, and I’ve refused to eat at any Denny’s ever again.

But we still had fun. Finished dinner, paid the check, left a nice tip, and then stood around chatting in the parking lot for another hour.

Anyway… I fell in with the Lois and Clark fandom, reading fanfic and writing a bit and getting to know people. That was mostly done through an email list. I could chat with people on the Compuserve forum, but the email list allowed us to share our stories with people on AOL and elsewhere. You’d write it, email it to the list manager, get her approval, and then she’d send out a bulk email with a few stories once a week.

From there, it was on to LiveJournal, where you could write on your own page whatever was on your mind and your friends would see the post in their Friends List feed. A few years later, I got an email invitation to join a new thing designed to help people in college connect with each other. But I was in college, and the campus had a great computer system with its own internal chat. I had plenty of ways to be in touch with my classmates, and not much contact with other schools. So I didn’t see the point of this whole “Facebook” thing and refused to join for well over a decade.

And then there were various chat services. AOL Instant Messenger (AIM), ICQ, IRC, etc. (If you watch Twitch, their text chat is still based on IRC.) Kind of like Facebook Messenger, where you can send short messages and have realtime chat with individual friends and groups who also use the same service.

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I never used CompuServe or AOL, for the first few years of the internet we had a few phone lines at work connected to a server, then we had to give those up to be used for office phones. Then it was NetZero for me until DSL came along, then cable.

Just remembered how many tries it took to cancel NetZero, they were desperate to keep people on and the rep would talk about keeping it as a backup and try to get you to just say the word “yes” at some point in the conversation. Took 3 months seeing the charge on my credit card to realize that was what they were doing, only got it canceled by repeating that I wanted it canceled no matter what the guy asked me.

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Don’t forget the third member of the Holy Trinity of early internet providers, Prodigy.

They all overcharged.

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Usenet started in 1979. When I first got on the Internet c. 1995, it pretty much was the Internet for me.

Just tell the younger kids, “It was like Reddit.” Basically an all-purpose message board, mostly unmoderated. Eventually got to the point where that was unsustainable, of course.

I actually still have a Usenet account, though I haven’t looked at it in ages. Last I knew it was about 90% spam and 10% warez.

I started out on AOL, for about 6 months before a real public ISP opened in my area (which I went on to work for).

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Reddit is a lot more moderated than Usenet though. Usenet was the Wild West in comparison.

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Usenet was great back when the internet was mostly just for email, once commercial web sites started happening every group was flooded with spam, mostly porn site links.

It all happened so fast, up until windows 95 most people used a terminal emulator to interact with the internet, it was all text based menus and command line, as soon as we started to get graphical interfaces it got easier to navigate, then html made the content easier to interact with, then people figured out they could make money through web sites, in a couple of years usenet was unusable.

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Some old-timers will still laugh if you mention the “Green Card Lawyers” to them.

A law firm who, in the mid-90’s, made the fateful decision to post an advertisement in Usenet. Which resulted in them being subjected to a Net-wide DDOS attack. How dare they advertise on the Internet???

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I vaguely remember that. Didn’t they post an ad on a LOT of newsgroups though?

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I started there a few years before the Endless September (in college I had a giant greenbar printout of ftp sites… that was a “search engine”). The biggest difference with Reddit is: absolutely no authentication/login needed which at the time was kind of a feature but ended up killing it completely. There are four newsgroups I still check in on occasionally but it’s a slog even on those.

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I used to use Compuserve, but I’m pretty sure I had moved off of it by the time I found MST3K circa '92.

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Which answer will get me to the cool kids able?

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Club MST3K. I had this name and earthvssoup80 on some other account. I had a Gymkata and Wiseau avatar with those accounts.

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We’re talking about Usenet, Compuserve, and command-line interfaces. Every table is the cool kids table.

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Ooh! Does Caption This! count as social media, because that’s totally the first MST3K thing I ever did online. One of my favorite ways to kill time between college classes.

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I worked for a law book publisher in the late 90’s. One year the state of Texas repealed and replaced its entire state law code. We were going to have to sit there and keystroke the entire thing in, by hand.

I went home, downloaded it off the state of Texas FTP site, and showed up the next morning with the whole thing on floppies. My bosses had no idea you could do that.

That’s my early Internet cool kid story.

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